What kind of religious are you??

[Brute]

thanx for the info, yoshiken and anjil. im very much appreciated...whats different is when i was about 2-3 weeks old i was baptized a catholic, and did you say that you baptize the dead?? i hope this does not offend but how does that work? do you take like HOLY oil and mark the sign of the cross on his forehead and then lead him to rest? if so thats very neat and kinda odd.

[Graedius]

yoshiken said:

This is why we do Baptisms for the dead in which people who have died without knowledge of the True Church in the Apostasy are able to be taught in Heaven and have the chance to accept the gospel there or not.

You will never know the extreme extent to which I am against that mormon practice. They do it here, too -- and I don't know, the tomb stone says "Rest in Peace" on it for a reason, not "Get converted to a religeon you might not stand for after you've been dead for fifty years."


I'm so sad...

[Anjil]

caretaker said:

whats different is when i was about 2-3 weeks old i was baptized a catholic, and did you say that you baptize the dead?? i hope this does not offend but how does that work? do you take like HOLY oil and mark the sign of the cross on his forehead and then lead him to rest? if so thats very neat and kinda odd.

Oh, no. You are baptized by immersion in the baptismal pool of one of the Temples (your first baptism takes place at one of the stakes rather than the Temple). You can say the dead are baptized "through spirit."

You will never know the extreme extent to which I am against that mormon practice. They do it here, too -- and I don't know, the tomb stone says "Rest in Peace" on it for a reason, not "Get converted to a religeon you might not stand for after you've been dead for fifty years."

That's why Yoshiken said you have the chance to accept the Gospel... or not. It's your choice.

[vaporshi]

coralyoshi said:

I wish my beliefs could be put under a few words XD No one ever knows what totems are, though ._. A shame, really.

Totems sound so fun and cute Double-scoop ice cream It must be a neat belief for animal lovers.

[CoralYoshi]

vaporshi said:

coralyoshi said:

I wish my beliefs could be put under a few words XD No one ever knows what totems are, though ._. A shame, really.

Totems sound so fun and cute <3 It must be a neat belief for animal lovers.

It can be fun, especially when you actually encounter the animal you consider your totem :3 You can do a lot of self-discovery just by seeing how the animal reacts, or through your translation of the animal's message. In the end, it's all really in my head and is translated to what I want to hear, but I think all religions are that way in the end Double-scoop ice cream ^_^;

[Yoshiken]

The Book of Mormon is a fantastic book, it answers so many of my questions about God and his principles, and about the ministry of Christ after he was ressurected.

Angela is right Graedius, people dont have to accept it, if people were baptized no matter what they wanted to think then there would be no point to being put on this Earth to be tested to see if we will stay worthy to God and stay righteous and endure to the end.

www.lds.com - thats the official Mormon website ^_^ (too lazy to put it as a link XD)

[Brute]

anjilyoshi said:

caretaker said:

whats different is when i was about 2-3 weeks old i was baptized a catholic, and did you say that you baptize the dead?? i hope this does not offend but how does that work? do you take like HOLY oil and mark the sign of the cross on his forehead and then lead him to rest? if so thats very neat and kinda odd.

Oh, no. You are baptized by immersion in the baptismal pool of one of the Temples (your first baptism takes place at one of the stakes rather than the Temple). You can say the dead are baptized "through spirit."

You will never know the extreme extent to which I am against that mormon practice. They do it here, too -- and I don't know, the tomb stone says "Rest in Peace" on it for a reason, not "Get converted to a religeon you might not stand for after you've been dead for fifty years."

That's why Yoshiken said you have the chance to accept the Gospel... or not. It's your choice.

My baptisms of the dead are a bit different...we take the casket and cover it with a white cloak (which represents the cloak you wore when you were first baptized as a baby.) and then bless it with the holy water and then say a prayer over it as we take it out of the church, and then lead it to rest...and thats how it works.

[Graedius]

I totally agree with you, YW...
In many religeons tey say that the others were brought about by Satan as an attempt to convert more to a false beleif, to damn them. Personally I think they'e just rationalizing a reason to say that they're the right one, and hoping everyone will beleive.

yoshiken said:

Angela is right Graedius, people dont have to accept it, if people were baptized no matter what they wanted to think then there would be no point to being put on this Earth to be tested to see if we will stay worthy to God and stay righteous and endure to the end.

But that's justwhat you're doing. You're baptising dead souls regardless of what they think, or did in their lives... Anyways shuldn't the time matter? If it was years and years,they'd already be in the hell they had been damned to long before then if they were blasphemer heathens. Even if I was given that chance after death, I don't know if I would accept... how can I worship a God who does not approve of my lifestyle, approve of whom I choose to show affection and devotion to?

I've lots to say on this topic but now is not the time or place...

[Sky]

I haven't had a good debate topic in a while, this proves to actually be interesting to talk about.

You know, I was never baptized, never went to church, barely read the bible thanks to summer camp when I was 10, and that's it. Do I have reason to worry about the future? Personally, I don't think so.

You know what I live by? I simply live life being true to myself and who I am. I'm a nice caring guy who'd do anything to help someone out and be there for them. If there is a heaven out there and I'm not admitted in there only because I'm not one to go to church, or I was never baptized, then so be it I guess. It'll just seem wrong to prosecute someone for being nice all his life, no? Then again, when I eventually do croak, I'll die happy, for I know I lived my life to the best of my abilities and lived it well, and personnally, that's all that matters to me, I'm one to live in the now and not the later.

Like I say to people, if it doesn't hurt anyone, you can do it. Of course, sometimes this goes against whatever religion's teachings, but why? I mean, if it really doesn't hurt anyone at all, why must it not be okay? Again, religion gives no clear answer to these questions, and again I feel compelled not to follow something that's so vague.

This post's not meant to be offensive towards anyone, and I'm sorry if it is, but that's my two cents.

[Graedius]

Once again, I fully agree with you...

Agreed. I beleive that if one lives morally, kindly, does not bring harm to others, keeps to himself, and beleives in and practices "good" acts, it *should* not matter beyondthat point. So long as you live life to the fullest within the moral boundaries of bringing any variation of tangible harm to others for any reason, in any means.

So long as I lived my life in the way I saw fit and enjoyed it, then it will have been fulfilled for all I care for.

[Yoshiken]

oooh! since this is now officially a debate, i can start getting fierce XD. and with everything i say i do not mean to put any harm on anyone!

Well Graedius, Men are not sent down to "Hell" until the second coming, they are not judged till the last day of Ressurection. Baptisms for the Dead are one of the most glorious parts of the Gospel. What if people died without a knowledge of the gospel? God wouldn't be cruel enough to judge them against works and actions that they had no idea were wrong. To answer other questions by others earlier, Baptisms for the dead are done by a member of the Church who is baptized in the temple on behalf of the dead. I have done it many times ^_^

and on the other comments, I shall quote a scripture in the Book of Mormon.

2nd Nephi Chapter 28

"and there shall be many which shall say in the last days: Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us. There shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counselfs from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark."

"O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to Hell!"

"Wo unto them that turn aside the just for a thing of naught and revile against that which is good, and say that it is of no worth! For the day shall come that the Lord God will speedily visit the inhabitants of the earth; and in that day that they are fully ripe in iniquity they shall perish"

"Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well! Yea wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost"

God has no intention of persecuting anyone, he wants everyone to be happy. But worldly joy and not heavenly joy is only temporal happiness. True and Eternal happiness is held in keeping the words of Christ and living in exaltation. He wants everyone to be saved from the will of the Devil.

this next part isnt directed to anyone, its just more explanations on the Book of Mormon.

the Book of Mormon is a sacred record of peoples in ancient America, and was engraved upon sheets of metal. Four kinds of metal record plates are spoken of in the book itself:

1) The Plates of Nephi, which were of two kinds: the Small Plates and the Large Plates. The former were more particularly devoted to the spiritual matters and the ministry and teachings of the prophets, while the latters were occupied mostly by a secular history of the peoples concerned

2) The Plates of Mormon, which consist of an abridgment by Mormon from the Large Plates of Nephi, with many Commentaries. These plates also contained a continuation of the history by Mormon and his son Moroni.

3)The Plates of Ether, which present a history of the Jaredites. This record was found and edited by Moroni, who inserted comments of his own and incorporated the record with the general history under the title "Book of Ether"

4) The Plates of Brass brought by the people of Lehi from Jerusalem in 600 B.C. These contained the five books of Moses, and also a record of the Jews from the beginning, down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah, King of Judah; And also the prophecies of the holy prophets.

The Large plates also included items of major spiritual importance.

[Lazo]

The issue of Baptism after death still remains. However, the deceased won't care, because they can't care, because they're dead.

The fundamental problem still remains, the problem that makes it faith- God, in any form, cannot be tested for in the natural world. Many claims made by Holy Texts regarding God's wills and God's laws are not or cannot be support by outside details. There is a lack of evidence outside of religious texts for Moses and the Jews wandering the desert for 40 years.

Simplistically speaking, all religions are faith organized. Believe it or not, Evolution is indeed a religion, because you have to believe in it. I, myself am a hardcore Christian. I go to a non-denominational church and I litterally pray every hour i am awake.

[Lazo]

Evolution is not a religion. Evolution is a theory, which is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences and tested hypothesis. Fossil records, genetics and the clear demonstration of micro-evolution, shown by Darwin's Finches, makes the evidence clear and compelling.

[boomiester]

hero said:

Believe it or not, Evolution is indeed a religion

I totally agree, in fact, It takes more faith to believe in evolution.

correct me if my info is wrong.

Fossil records: There are actually fewer examples of evolutionary transition now then there was in Darwin's time, since scientists are finding that their "missing links" aren't really evolutionary transitions. On top of that, out of the over 100 million fossils that have been cataloged, not one link from ape to man has been found.

Evolution breaks a scientific law: The 2nd law of Thermodynamics states that in any system, energy moves from order to disorder and things tend to break down into less complicated forms instead of increasing in complexity. Evolution states that life started from non-living matter and then gradually through time increased in complexity to what we are today. This completely contradicts the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Bad math: Swiss mathematician Charles Eugene Guye calculated the probability of a single cell forming by evolution through limitless time, particles and events. He calculated that the probability is 10 to the 160, or 10 multiplied by itself 160 times. Statisticians say that anything over 10 to the 50 is beyond reason or essentially impossible.

Evolution is basically Nothing+Time+Chance= All life on earth

In my opinion, just that makes Evolution pretty hard to believe.

I agree. In fact, if you put your faith in something then it is a belief. You have to BELIEVE in it. Also, evol. disagrees with the 1rst law of thermo..

[Lazo]

boomiester said:

Fossil records: There are actually fewer examples of evolutionary transition now then there was in Darwin's time, since scientists are finding that their "missing links"aren't really evolutionary transitions. On top of that, out of the over 100 million fossils that have been cataloged, not one link from ape to man has been found.

Paleontologists know of many detailed examples of fossils intermediate in form between various groups. One of the most famous is Archaeopteryx, which combines feathers and skeletal structures belonging to birds with features of dinosaurs. A sequence of fossils spans the evolution of modern horses from Eohippus. Whales had four-legged ancestors that walked on land, and creatures known as Ambulocetus and Rodhocetus helped make that transition. 20 or more hominids (not all our ancestors) fill the gap between Lucy the australopithecine and modern humans.

boomiester said:

Evolution breaks a scientific law: The 2nd law of Thermodynamics states that in any system, energy moves from order to disorder and things tend to break down into less complicated forms instead of increasing in complexity. Evolution states that life started from non-living matter and then gradually through time increased in complexity to what we are today. This completely contradicts the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

If this were true then mineral crystals snowflakes would be impossible, too, because they are complex structures that form spontaneously from disordered parts. The second law states that total entropy of a closed system cannot decrease. The Second Law permits parts of a system to decrease in Entropy as long as other parts experience an offsetting complex. Earth is not a closed system. Our planet as a whole can grow more complex because the sun pours heat and light into it, the entropy with the sun's nuclear fission more than re-balances the scales. Simple organisms can fuel their rise toward complexity by consuming other forms of life and nonliving materials.

boomiester said:

Bad math: Swiss mathematician Charles Eugene Guye calculated the probability of a single cell forming by evolution through limitless time, particles and events. He calculated that the probability is 10 to the 160, or 10 multiplied by itself 160 times. Statisticians say that anything over 10 to the 50 is beyond reason or essentially impossible.

Chance plays a part in evolution, but evolution does not depend on chance to create new organisms. Natural Selection, the mechanism of evolution, harnesses nonrandom change by preserving adaptive features and eliminating non-adaptive ones. As long as the forces stay constant, natural selection can push evolution in one direction and produce sophisticated structures in surprisingly short times.

[boomiester]

Oh well, I had a feeling that if anyone was to find that my info was off , it'd be you Lazo. Anyhow, I'm still unconvinced that Evolution works even though my argument is false. I'm still waiting for someone somewhere to prove that evolution is true, but I'm not so sure that it'll ever become anything more than just a theory.

Back on topic: I'm sort of like Hero, I'm a Christian who goes to a non-denominational church.

Awesome! Yeah, anyways, how can they prove evolution true? It goes against physics itself! now think about it, if God created the world, then everything would make sense. Atoms and stuff were created... it would fit perfectly! Also, DNA is a code... a perfect written language. I want to believe in a unique creator... not random chance. No offense.

EDIT: Theories are scientifically proven. They have to have facts to support them.

[vaporshi]

I'm in the middle of writing a 2000-word essay on Charles Darwin for history class so I'm learning all about the early discoveries of natural selection and how people first reacted to the idea of evolution. It's quite interesting.

I believe in evolution, personally. However I think it's also possible for both evolution and creationism to co-exist if it was argued that God was the cause of the beginning of the world and then evolution just happened on its own. But then I guess that goes against the Biblical version which discusses Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah's Ark, etc... which I don't believe in.