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Post by Yoshi on Nov 17, 2004 1:36:39 GMT -5
okay i want this to stop. I could careless where yoshi came from as long asd he or she  is yoshi PERIOD! This is pointless D:. Not another word from anyone on this agrument |
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Post by Koshizu on Nov 17, 2004 2:12:27 GMT -5
...I think it would be cute if he was carrying a flag with a mushroom on it. *shrug*  |
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Shika
Yoshi
FEAR MY RED SEXY EYES!
Posts: 164
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Post by Shika on Nov 17, 2004 8:00:35 GMT -5
Believe me, I have seen a LOT of Anime. Some Anime artists say that they are inspired by Western Culture. Heh, my ancestors are from a lot of parts of Asia, so if I draw something. The drawing becomes Mongolian/Chinese/Japanese/Dutch? Get your facts up. Anime is a drawing style, your obsession with Japan will not compensate for your lack of facts. Anyone can draw Anime and call it Anime. And about the origin of Anime. I'll say this one more time. "Anime has been inspired by Western Culture." If you disagree with this, go watch a Disney Cartoon and try comparing that with Anime. The main feats of Anime is. "Bigger, cuter/detailed eyes. Exegarrated emotions, big and small mouths depending on emotion." Edit: So what is anime anyway? For the curious, the novice, or the anime fan just wanting to refine their knowledge, knowing what anime is and what's involved in understanding it is essential to properly perceiving (and possibly enjoying) it. For every potential new anime fan, awareness of the term "anime" is different. Some people may have only heard of the word as it refers to that "weird" animation that one sees on TV that doesn't seem to follow regular "cartoon" conventions. Others may have had exposure to it in some form or fashion, having seen movies such as "Akira" and/or "Ghost in the Shell" and basing their knowledge off of that. Still others may have been exposed to it without even knowing it ("Thundercats and Transformers" are two examples of animated shows originating in Japan, which technically make them anime). Whatever your knowledge, this course will help you learn a little bit more about anime. You may find that some of your preceptions may be right, and others may be completely wrong. Either way, we hope you'll learn something. Let's begin with some simple terminology. Here's what we have for the word "anime" in our Otaku Dictionary: Anime (AH-nee-may or AN-nee-may) n. - Literal origin from the French, (short for "animation"). Refers to "Japanese Animation", a genre/medium that has its roots in the 1960's when the Japanese began making television versions of their version of comics (manga). Unlike the "cartoon", America and other culture's counterpart to anime, much of the Japanese animation shown is one of deeper, sometimes more mature themes, including developed storylines, linear plots, and aspects of violence, sex, drama, and comedy (not unlike live-action films in the States). There are different kinds of anime and each kind embraces adifferent age group or group of people. In Japan, the medium is as much respected as the "live-action" genre of movies. In other cultures, anime has achieved a mostly cult following, though with the mainstream acceptance and awareness of such anime as Pokemon, Dragonball Z, Tenchi Muyo, and Perfect Blue, the anime movement continues to gain in strength and visibility. ex. - "Did you watch that new Evangelion? It's the epitomy of what anime is. see also: Japanimation Sounds complicated, right? Well, hopefully by the time you get to the end of our lessons you'll be able to intimately understand every part of this definition, and a little bit more. First, let's delve into the history behind anime. Like the definition says, Japanese animation began in the 1960's. Popular manga, or Japanese comics, had been the norm for a few years, and, being influenced by the works of Walt Disney and others back in the West, the Japanese decided to try their own hand at animation. The picture on the left is taken from "Tetsuwan Atom" (or "Astro Boy"), the first well-known and popular anime series created by Osamu Tezuka, known to many as an anime/manga pioneer. The series went on to be internationally acclaimed, and a new genre was born in Japan. Studios such as Toei and Mushi Productions were established, and more and more animated series began appearing in Japan. Much of it, however, didn't really make it onto international shores until the 70's and early 80's, when shows such as Speed Racer, Robotech, and Mobile Suit Gundam became fan favorites not only in Japan, but also in areas around the world. Japanese animation, even in the beginning, had a distinct look and feel to it that was different from other animations like it (most notably the "cartoon" of the West, which had been in existence long before anime). These differences are ultimately what separates the terminology of "anime" versus "cartoon". While technically all animation could be considered "cartoons", the traits and cultural definition of what is considered "anime" is very different than that of the "cartoon". In fact, there are things present in anime that make it very distinct and unique from the traditional "cartoon", and we're going to take a look at them - starting with the "anime" drawing style. |
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Shika
Yoshi
FEAR MY RED SEXY EYES!
Posts: 164
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Post by Shika on Nov 17, 2004 8:14:34 GMT -5
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Darkmark
Junior Yoshi
It's Darkmark! Darkmark! The M is not capitalised! *Brick*
Posts: 135
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Post by Darkmark on Nov 17, 2004 9:08:52 GMT -5
Okay, this is getting silly. Like BryUK said, if Yoshi were to carry a flag, it would be either one with a Nintendo logo or the mushroom kingdom's flag or something along those lines. Trying to cross Yoshi and Earth just isn't a good thing. Keep them separate. By your logic, every character on every video game ever made by Nintendo would carry the Japanese flag, including, say, Samus, any and all Pokémon, Link, Zelda, and so on. Okay, so Shigueru Miyamoto (assuming he's the one who came up with Yoshi, I don't know) invented Yoshi, but Mario and Luigi are supposed to be Italian, not Japanese.
Point being that Yoshies don't exist (on Earth, anyway) and therefore have no country of origin on this planet. Their country of origin is the Yoshi's Island, Mushroom Kingdom, or one of those. It's like saying that even though a video game was set in America and had an American cast, because it was programmed/concieved in Japan, all the characters are Japanese.
I wouldn't deny that the IDEA of Yoshi is from Japan, but I don't believe that the character himself is Japanese, just the ideas behind his character, if that makes any sense.
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Post by Soul on Nov 17, 2004 10:29:59 GMT -5
Care to ask the anime artists that only speak Japanese? How can you know what anime is, if you only watch what is transmitted to your TV? Why don't you go to Japan and take a look at the anime that is only transmitted there? How can you expect your sources not to be biased in favor of the west, when you only use westernized anime as reference, anime that has already made it here?
NO!!!! Unless YOU were born in Japan. Duh...
Lack of facts? How many facts do you need?
LOL!! Ok, let's see... In anime I see fewer frames, which are much more highly-detailed than anything from Disney; I see more mature themes, a lot more blood, and (let's be honest about it) occassional nudity in some of them. I also see stories that don't always have a happy ending. (You go try finding a story from Disney that doesn't have a happy ending) And I see few/none "buffoon" characters (characters who are all about being silly and rarely have any degree of seriousness, like pain and panic from Disney's Hercules, Iago from Disney's Aladdin, etc...).
Sure, it came from Disney... in your dreams.
If you are gonna talk about anime, why use other people's opinions? Don't you have your own? Or do you only have other people's opinions in your defense?
Let's sit down and set this straight, and let's not silence anyone. The problem here seems to be that you all assume I'm using an agressive tone just because I'm being honest. I am not. What if I were saying it with the nicest tone in the world? Try re-reading my "previously-offensive-looking" text with a softer voice tone/gestures (because when you read text, you hear it in your head with a particular tone that can vary greatly depending on your emotions). I would think you'd notice a difference. But yes, I do realize it's easy for people to be offended with "honest speech". But it really shouldn't be that way.
Can't anyone see the symbolism?! ?!? God. I think I better not post any drawings again in this board, if they are going to be judged solely based on "how hard to make it looks" ¬¬
I am very, VERY disappointed...
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Post by joshi on Nov 17, 2004 16:45:33 GMT -5
How did this turn into an anime debate, I thought we were speaking of Yoshi's origin...
Yoshi was indeed created in Japan, and that is a FACT! Nothing anyone says about it will change the fact that Yoshi was created in Japan, along with the other Nintendo characters. However, what is not a fact (an opinion in which is often argued upon, or so it seems) is that Yoshi IS Japanese.
Yoshi is not Japanese, he is not American, he is not English, he is not Filipino, he is not Mexican, he is not Chinese, he is not Puerto Rican, he is not of any nation of this world. Yoshi is a fantasy character that belongs only in his fantasy world, Yoshi's Island, nowhere else. It disgusts me to see Yoshi holding a nation's flag of this world, can you imagine Mario holding the Italian flag, Samus holding the Brazilian flag, Kirby holding the American flag, Joanna Dark (from Perfect Dark) holding the Japanese flag, or even Ash holding the Chinese flag? That is just sick, in my opinion.
But you know what, do I care what people think of my opinion? Not at all, because I know that my opinion is just as right as someone who supports National Pride and my opinion is just as wrong as someone who supports National Pride. This is just my opinion, if it is not acceptable, then why fret over it, an opinion is nothing more than something you believe that seems to be correct but it isn't necesarily true...
Sorry Timmy, but I had to clear that up...
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Post by Bry on Nov 17, 2004 18:31:21 GMT -5
Erm, Joanna Dark isn't a character based in a 'fantasy' world though. Perfect Dark was based on our Earth, but in the future. (Area 51, Nevada, Chicago, Alaska etc)
That said, Joanna Dark was created by Rare, a British company and was officially stated by Rare as being a British nationality, sooooo...
Anyways.
No one. At any point. Debated that Yoshi was created in Japan and is thus a Japanese creation/character.
That was NEVER in doubt.
All people are upset about Soul is your suggestion... or rather your belief and expectation that Yoshi himself thinks of himself as a Japanese national.
That he has a Japanese personality, and Japanese blood in his veins. That he is a part of this real world and would think this way.
That simply isn't the case. There is not a single scrap of information you could use to back that statement up as official. It is simply your view (and quite a radical one) and you shouldn't expect everyone to agree with it.
You only compounded that by saying Mario has Japanese blood in him.
He doesn't. Shigeru Miyamoto created Mario and has made his ideas of who Mario is very clear. Even in the Japanese releases of games, Mario is still voiced by Charles Martinet and speaks exactly the same way.
"Its-a me! Mario!"
If you can bring something conclusive to the table that Mario has elements of a Japanese personality, then by all means, I'd love to hear what they are. Honestly, I like listening to peoples concepts, even if I don't agree. As long as it has a reasonable bit of backing where possible.
That is the statement that has caused this trouble Soul. That it would be Yoshi's choice.
Now, if you had mentioned at the very beginning it was only meant to be a symbolic picture rather than a outright fact that everyone else should agree to, and should be ashamed of themselves if they didn't.. well, that's a bit different.
Lets set the record straight once and for all.
Is this drawing merely symbolic of Yoshi showing thanks to the country that created him.
Or
Or you seriously saying Yoshi considers himself a Japanese national, with Japanese blood in his vains and that he thinks in Japanese.
If it is the former, than I have no serious problem with the drawing.
If it is the latter, then it is just your opinion and we should not be expected to fully agree with it.
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Shika
Yoshi
FEAR MY RED SEXY EYES!
Posts: 164
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Post by Shika on Nov 17, 2004 18:54:36 GMT -5
Care to ask the anime artists that only speak Japanese? How can you know what anime is, if you only watch what is transmitted to your TV? Why don't you go to Japan and take a look at the anime that is only transmitted there? How can you expect your sources not to be biased in favor of the west, when you only use westernized anime as reference, anime that has already made it here? NO!!!! Unless YOU were born in Japan. Duh... Lack of facts? How many facts do you need? LOL!! Ok, let's see... In anime I see fewer frames, which are much more highly-detailed than anything from Disney; I see more mature themes, a lot more blood, and (let's be honest about it) occassional nudity in some of them. I also see stories that don't always have a happy ending. (You go try finding a story from Disney that doesn't have a happy ending) And I see few/none "buffoon" characters (characters who are all about being silly and rarely have any degree of seriousness, like pain and panic from Disney's Hercules, Iago from Disney's Aladdin, etc...). Sure, it came from Disney... in your dreams. If you are gonna talk about anime, why use other people's opinions? Don't you have your own? Or do you only have other people's opinions in your defense? Let's sit down and set this straight, and let's not silence anyone. The problem here seems to be that you all assume I'm using an agressive tone just because I'm being honest. I am not. What if I were saying it with the nicest tone in the world? Try re-reading my "previously-offensive-looking" text with a softer voice tone/gestures (because when you read text, you hear it in your head with a particular tone that can vary greatly depending on your emotions). I would think you'd notice a difference. But yes, I do realize it's easy for people to be offended with "honest speech". But it really shouldn't be that way. Can't anyone see the symbolism?! ?!? God. I think I better not post any drawings again in this board, if they are going to be judged solely based on "how hard to make it looks" ¬¬ I am very, VERY disappointed... *Holds back his laughter.* Ahem. Americanized Anime? Sure, those are easy to spot. But does that mean that it isn't Anime? Anime has still some roots from Disney and American cartoons. If you gave Anime characters smaller eyes and mouths, he'd look Western. What has plot and happy-endings to do with Anime and Western animation? X-Men = Mature and bloody. Western and identical to Manga. Except the style is more darker and rougher. I don't want to visit Japan, I'm not one of those fanboys that goes. "OMG UR ASIAN! UR COOL!" I have an Asian origin and I like Anime, does that mean Once again, Anime is a friggin style, it doesn't matter if you're American or Asian. If you want to draw something 'truly' Japanese, you should draw real traditional Japanese art. That is considered true root Japanese art. I haven't seen any facts from you, post some links to backup your claims that Anime is really 100% Japanese. O...ka.....y.... Have you even watched some Disney Cartoons? The animation quality is equally matched with Anime, even though Anime does have some edges in humour and plot/character development. Disney has always been silly in some movies, and that's why the Disney movies are so fun to watch. But who cares? It's a friggin animation. I have my own opinion, I think Anime is a crossbreed with a tad Japanese and Western. Do you even know that a large percentage of Asians are crazy about Western culture and that they love Western Culture?  I'm not really offended, nor am I touched by your 'opinion' No offense, but you sound like a fanboy that yells. "JAPAN IS TEH ROX!" Anime is largely inspired by Disney, live with it. If you get angry because of this, then you've proven yourself to be obsessed with Japan. And you clearly don't accept any 'foreign' influence from other nations. Once again and again, Anime is influenced by Western culture. Live with it. |
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Post by joshi on Nov 17, 2004 19:07:18 GMT -5
Erm, Joanna Dark isn't a character based in a 'fantasy' world though. Perfect Dark was based on our Earth, but in the future. (Area 51, Nevada, Chicago, Alaska etc) That said, Joanna Dark was created by Rare, a British company and was officially stated by Rare as being a British nationality, sooooo... XD Oh crud, I wasn't even thinking when I put that up! Oh well, she didn't visit Japan so it's still ok, and even so, she's in the "futuristic real world" which isn't quiet the present but what is visualized to someday be the present, so it is fantasy in a realistic way (though I don't think it would be considered Magic Realism). Though, I commited a silly mistake, thanks for clearing that up. |
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Post by Bry on Nov 17, 2004 19:09:11 GMT -5
I want to stay out of the silly anime argument but I will add that many American, European and Japanese animations are all actually animated in Korea. So yes, I suppose Anime has to be defined as a style because a number of Japanese Animes were actually animated in Korea. The Simpsons is an American example. Animated in Korea would you belive.
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Post by Teo on Nov 17, 2004 20:18:16 GMT -5
Yoshi is japanese, people forget, but they still know. Does it matter? Yes! If it wasn't for Japan, there would be no yoshi. Yoshi is supposedly living on an island. Who cares? The fans! No argument and a great picture!
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Post by Yoshi on Nov 17, 2004 20:42:45 GMT -5
thank you shika! This is getting very ridiculous man. Japan is just a place... *sigh* thats all I have to say.D:
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Post by red.yoshi on Nov 17, 2004 21:00:20 GMT -5
awsome pic soul.
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Post by Soul on Nov 17, 2004 21:14:46 GMT -5
It is 100% symbolic. Everything I draw is symbolic. I don't draw things "just to see if I can" nor to impress people. I do it to communicate things. Whether people agree to those things or not is TOTALLY up to them. I don't know where you all get the notion that I'm "trying to impose things on you". X-Men is not from Disney. I thought your point was that anime is inspired from Disney? And now you're bringing X-Men up? I am not here to convince anyone of anything. I just came here and created this thread just to voice an opinion. Of course, you think not... Where's your backing to back up such loosely-stated claims? Now, this has a very EVIL air to it. For one, I couldn't care less about what your "large percentage of asians" want. It is me who likes Japan, and I don't care whether "a large percentage of asians" are excited about Japan or not. And two, you are insinuating that I should like Western culture. Obviously your pride has crossed the line a bit. I am not angry, your post doesn't offend me. I am here to discuss, not to be angry (though this can become very challenging). Maybe. But I'm not saying it is superior or any of that crap that usually comes with national pride. I'm just saying that I like it. I never said you should too. (unlike you). However I did say that Japan should get credit for creating Yoshi (and apparently nobody noticed this and went all along with what they "thought" was most likely for a person to be saying after drawing a flag, ¬¬!). Thank you so much Teo... ;D At last, someone appreciates Japan for their work. Thank you red |
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Post by Lazo on Nov 17, 2004 22:25:39 GMT -5
So, uh... Yikes.
It's a great drawing, and I guess we can't forget that Yoshi came from the same place that dispenses fried food* from vending machines.
* Among other things, including (but not limited too) Flowers and Elvis impersonators.
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Post by Kailing on Nov 18, 2004 0:51:10 GMT -5
Mkays, first up, adorable pic as always, Yoshiru, Yoshi looks very cute in this.
I'm not really gonna say anything about the flag, it's already been in this heated discussion long enough, but when you think about, it's not really any different from a Kangaroo holding up an Australian Flag, or a Bald Eagle perched ontop of an American Flag.
If you don't like something about something you see, keep it to yourself - The planet's still revolving you know.
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Shika
Yoshi
FEAR MY RED SEXY EYES!
Posts: 164
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Post by Shika on Nov 18, 2004 5:58:36 GMT -5
It is 100% symbolic. Everything I draw is symbolic. I don't draw things "just to see if I can" nor to impress people. I do it to communicate things. Whether people agree to those things or not is TOTALLY up to them. I don't know where you all get the notion that I'm "trying to impose things on you". X-Men is not from Disney. I thought your point was that anime is inspired from Disney? And now you're bringing X-Men up? I am not here to convince anyone of anything. I just came here and created this thread just to voice an opinion. Of course, you think not... Where's your backing to back up such loosely-stated claims? Now, this has a very EVIL air to it. For one, I couldn't care less about what your "large percentage of asians" want. It is me who likes Japan, and I don't care whether "a large percentage of asians" are excited about Japan or not. And two, you are insinuating that I should like Western culture. Obviously your pride has crossed the line a bit. I am not angry, your post doesn't offend me. I am here to discuss, not to be angry (though this can become very challenging). Maybe. But I'm not saying it is superior or any of that crap that usually comes with national pride. I'm just saying that I like it. I never said you should too. (unlike you). However I did say that Japan should get credit for creating Yoshi (and apparently nobody noticed this and went all along with what they "thought" was most likely for a person to be saying after drawing a flag, ¬¬!). Thank you so much Teo... ;D At last, someone appreciates Japan for their work. Thank you red I have already said that Japan is inspired by Western culture, including Disney. Marvel is another inspiration source for action Anime artists. Today, everything is vice-versa. People borrows ideas from Anime. Opinion? Okay, you're the one screaming that Anime is 100% Japanese. Atleast, it looks like it. XD My backing? Okay, let's see. Personal experience? I watch Anime and Disney movies if I feel like it? Disney cartoons have their own edges and so does Anime. I'm not telling you to like Western Culture, just noting that Anime is inspired from Western Culture. If you like TRUE Japanese art, you should look at real traditional art. That I've mentioned before. But I guess you just like 'Japan' because of it's Anime, just like every fanboy. Of course, I have no problem with that. It's your choice to like Japan 'cause of that. You sound annoyed in the previous posts. Correct me, if I'm wrong. XD I'm not telling you to like Western Culture. *Shrugs* The person that created Yoshi couldn't care less if he was Japanese or Chinese for that matter. Unless if he is a Nationalist. I thank the person that created Yoshi, not Japan. If you're going to thank Japan for creating Yoshi.... *Shrugs* Your problem, not mine. Just shows your over-obsession for Japan. |
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Post by Bry on Nov 18, 2004 8:23:32 GMT -5
When did ANYBODY say Yoshi was not created in Japan?
That was NEVER debated.
Sorry to use caps, but I've said the same thing in multiple times now and it doesn't seem to be sinking in.
Everyone knows Yoshi was created in Japan by a Japanese Nintendo employee. No one would argue that. No one is saying he wasn't.
The only thing that has brought up this debate is your (apparent) view that Yoshi in and of himself as a character is a Japanese person.
And then your suggestion that Mario has Japanese blood in his veins. Mario was created by the legendary Shigeru Miyamoto. But Mr Miyamoto has never intended Mario to be 'part Japanese'.
Most of Mario's current personality is down to Charles Martinet, who has Mr Miyamoto's complete approval. And, of course, Charles Martinet's portrayal of Mario does not contain a single shred of Japanese mindset or personality.
I am not saying Mario isn't a Japanese creation. Just that he is not a Japanese person in his own fictional mind.
[glow=red,2,300]Yoshi was created in Japan by Nintendo.
He is a Japanese idea and creation.
However he is from Yoshi's Island, part of the Dinosaur World and a neighbor to the Mushroom Kingdom[/glow]
That is my view. So are we on the same page or not?
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Darkmark
Junior Yoshi
It's Darkmark! Darkmark! The M is not capitalised! *Brick*
Posts: 135
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Post by Darkmark on Nov 18, 2004 11:31:19 GMT -5
Way to dodge the important question, Soul. Skip back a few posts to this one: Lets set the record straight once and for all. Is this drawing merely symbolic of Yoshi showing thanks to the country that created him. Or Or you seriously saying Yoshi considers himself a Japanese national, with Japanese blood in his brains and that he thinks in Japanese. If it is the former, than I have no serious problem with the drawing. If it is the latter, then it is just your opinion and we should not be expected to fully agree with it. What I think is pretty much already said there. How about telling us about the relevant topic rather than arguing back and forth with Shika over anime styles? |
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