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Post by Soul on Nov 15, 2004 21:13:11 GMT -5
Yoshi is Japanese, don't you forget
Just a tribute. I get tired of seeing people totally ignore Yoshi's origin, that's all... If Yoshi were to carry a flag proudly, it would be that one. (Made Aug/12/04) |
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Post by Gene L.D. Ryoko on Nov 15, 2004 21:16:53 GMT -5
i know yoshi was japaness
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Post by teh yoshi on Nov 15, 2004 21:40:32 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of national pride. This picture is really cute, but it does annoy me a little. Of course there's no stopping in getting a good feeling of who you are (yes, I get my kicks out of being Filipino and knowing about the culture and whatnot).
I believe that Yoshi can belong to anybody of any origin. I cannot deny that Yoshi's origin is Japanese, yet nobody has beef about an American Yoshi or just so happens to know the English language. Look, I hope you're not annoyed by the fact I just like to put Korean on my drawings, but that's just me. Of course it gives off a weird feeling to some because it's not normal and Yoshi isn't really associated with the Korean language at all, but that's one of the many reasons why I like to do it. It's different. Something kind of unique, and to some, extreme. I enjoy things in different languages other than its original. I just think it's really cool. If you keep something closed out to all other countries, languages, or whatever, it won't be so fun or fair to others. I once tried reading a Mario comic in German, and I thought it was incredibly cute that the little Yoshis were speaking in German. How could anyone have anything against that? But of course, this is just my personal preference. I enjoy things that can be way different to most people out there. Yoshis associating with the Japanese language or culture doesn't deem so special to me because it's nothing new or different. I do dream of Yoshis involved in every culture. I just don't want them to be isolated and ignorant of the world around them. They can still have their peace on Yoshi's Island (or some may call it ヨッシーの島, 요시의 섬, Остров yoshi, Isla de Yoshi, Île de Yoshi, Insel von Yoshi, or whatever) but just shutting them out to any other culture or knowledge outside of their own isn't really fair or fun at all.
All in all, I like things different from the norm.
Korean is much less popular than Japanese, and it's kind of what makes me more attracted to it, along with the Korean communities in my area.
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Post by Soul on Nov 15, 2004 21:53:40 GMT -5
I have no idea about what made you think that. My point was only that Japan seldom or never gets credit for being Yoshi's home country. I am not Japanese and yet I still am able to give Japan its proper credit. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to do the same.
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Post by Koshizu on Nov 16, 2004 11:12:47 GMT -5
I thought Yoshi's Island was his home country? Oh well...I think its more pleasurable if fictional characters are confined to the world in which they are created, and not the world we live in. Keeps more of the 'magical mystical' quality about the character. And I don't have anything against Japan; I'd still love to go there one day. Its just the sheer amount of moronic anime/manga fandom has killed my love of it slightly. Apparently knowing Japanese is just knowing 'Kawaii desu ne!'. Know that, and you'll manage to get anywhere, supposedly.
Undeniably, its a very cute picture. But like Teh, I'm not a big fan of national pride. Is his belly larger than usual, or is that just me?
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Post by Bry on Nov 16, 2004 12:29:44 GMT -5
Its a nice, cute picture but I'm afraid I have to join the camp of not being too crazy on the whole 'national pride' thing.  He might have been created in Japan, by a Japanese gentlemen, but I do not consider Yoshi, or any other resident of the Mario universe to have anything to do with the real world. With the exception of Mario and Luigi. So no, I will not agree that Yoshi is Japanese. The only basis I can see for that statement is that he was created in Japan. Well, so was Mario but that doesn't make him Japanese.  If Yoshi were to carry a flag proudly, I'd say it would either be a fictional one relating to the worlds in the games OR it would bear the Nintendo logo. Nintendo is Yoshi's 'real world' home, and a company that is represented all over the world by its divisions. Nintendo made Yoshi, not Japan. |
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Shika
Yoshi
FEAR MY RED SEXY EYES!
Posts: 164
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Post by Shika on Nov 16, 2004 12:40:31 GMT -5
And you're forgetting that most of Nintendo's games and style are inspired by American toons and culture.
Same goes for Anime, Anime is inspired by western culture.
If Yoshi was Japanese, and if EVERY Anime game or cartoon was Japanese, then they wouldn't contain any Western culture.
Such as cars, houses, culture, clothing, weapons, mechas, hair styles.
Today, Western cartoons are borrowing stuff from Anime, so I suppose it's vice-versa now.
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Post by Toshi on Nov 16, 2004 13:55:37 GMT -5
Thats why i love the Japanese people...because they made Nintendo and made yoshi...why would i forget about where Yoshi comes from?
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Post by joshi on Nov 16, 2004 14:27:35 GMT -5
I agree with Koshi on this one. I definitely thought Yoshi's home country is Yoshi's Island, not Japan. I don't like to associate fictional characters to anywhere on this planet. Even though the creator of Yoshi was from Japan, this doesn't necessarily mean Yoshi IS from Japan.
I'm with Teh also, I'm not "loco" for Japanese, but I am interested in learning other languages, such as German. I really enjoy to hear MAiltroid, Dragoncube, and their friend Ceren talk German, it's really cute, I wish I could join their conversation someday. I think learning Korean would also be pretty cool because, heck, not many people want to learn Korean, but when the opportunity comes, with pride you can say, "Hey, I know how to speak Korean." Plus, I don't like anime and I know that the Japanese has talent in that area.
Other than this, this picture is awesome! Yoshi seems happy to represent Japan.
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Post by Toshi on Nov 16, 2004 15:19:44 GMT -5
I agree with Koshi on this one. I definitely thought Yoshi's home country is Yoshi's Island, not Japan. I don't like to associate fictional characters to anywhere on this planet. Even though the creator of Yoshi was from Japan, this doesn't necessarily mean Yoshi IS from Japan. Well, i actually agree with both Joshi and Koshi, now ive seen this point of view, Yoshi is not Japanese, but...erm...Yoshinese...? Anyway like Joshi said, his creator may be Japanese, but doesnt mean Yoshi is too, i may be a British guy, but one of my created characters, Mutshoshi, is actually American! Although, you lot dont really care about that do you? Yea...i can easily change my views when a good point is made! |
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Post by teh yoshi on Nov 16, 2004 17:07:44 GMT -5
I'd still love to go there one day. Its just the sheer amount of moronic anime/manga fandom has killed my love of it slightly. Apparently knowing Japanese is just knowing 'Kawaii desu ne!'. Know that, and you'll manage to get anywhere, supposedly. Oooh, man. I think you've mostly read my mind, pretty much. Heh. I'm liking this thread so far. Very interesting point of views being brought up.  |
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Post by joshi on Nov 16, 2004 17:46:20 GMT -5
Oooh, man. I think you've mostly read my mind, pretty much. Heh. I'm liking this thread so far. Very interesting point of views being brought up. Me too, of course, you started it! And I really liked your point of view, you expressed a lot of support in that crammed looking paragraph.  |
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Shika
Yoshi
FEAR MY RED SEXY EYES!
Posts: 164
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Post by Shika on Nov 16, 2004 18:35:16 GMT -5
I'd be happy if I get to visit Japan, China and Mongolia.
But I'm not sure if this will come cheap.
Stuff in Japan are already expensive, likewise for travelling to it.
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Post by Soul on Nov 16, 2004 21:25:53 GMT -5
This is crazy... I can't believe none of you wants to admit that Yoshi is from Japan, and from Japan only. I'm sure this has to do with lack of visualization of how it could not be any other way. For example, you probably didn't realize that if there were no Japan, there would be no Nintendo and subsequently no Yoshi. None of you seems to have noticed that. You're just taking what you like (Yoshi) and totally forgetting about the one person (whoever it was, it probably wasn't shig) who created Yoshi and without which you would have NEVER seen Yoshi. It's like when a father gives his son some candy, and then when the father asks for some the son doesn't want to share it because "it's all his now". Grateful? No... UNgrateful. Anyway... We all need a healthy amount of pride. Of course, too much of anything is always bad, pride included. But if you have absolutely no pride whatsoever, then you'll feel totally worthless. So I really do think that if Yoshi could talk and were asked to choose a country, it would be Japan, for reasons obvious to me and apparently not so obvious to you all... Would it still annoy you if Yoshi were carrying the flag of the Philippines instead? I'm sure you wouldn't be annoyed, not one bit... (Be honest to yourself, you wouldn't). What you should have said in place of this is that Yoshi can be enjoyed by anyone from anywhere in the world, and not that Yoshi can "belong" to them. Arghhh, don't ever use a direct-logical sense when interpreting art... My pic's message is ALL about giving proper credit to the proper person/nation, and doesn't have much to do with anything out of that. It in no way suggests that there can't be variations of the Yoshi (it should have been obvious...) "home country" as in what real-world country is responsible for his existence as a fictional character. Yoshi's Island doesn't exist in the real world. The otakus like to babble Japanese words as often as possible because *they* think it's a cool thing to do. But yet they seem to fail to notice that this behavior is not well-seen by many people and has an offensive air to non-otakus. I feel your pain as well, Koshizu. I would love to learn FULL Japanese and be able to reply to otaku's babbles with an intimidatingly complex string of well-written Japanese. And watch them fail to reply back... I do not think Yoshi would be Yoshi had he not been created by Japanese people. Yoshi has in him traits from the Japanese personality which do not exist anywhere else... although I'm just beginning to discover that and so I'm not prepared to talk about it. Believe it or not, he does have a bit of Japanese in him. The answer to this is very long and so I cannot comment about it here. But it has to do with this: In order for a person from country A (say Japan) to write a story about a character that comes from country B (say Italy), The person from country A needs to emulate what it would be like to be a person from country B. Thus he/she is limited by what he/she knows about that country. Thus it is to expect him/her to fill in what he/she doesn't know about country B with what he/she knows about country A. It is a well-known universal tendency. *laughs hysterically* Sorry but this is undeniable proof that you haven't seen any significant amount of anime yet... Do you know what makes things either Japanese or non-Japanese? If I write a comicbook that looks and feels like anime, does that automatically make it Japanese? Hell no! It HAS to be made by someone who comes from Japan for it to be Japanese, or otherwise it will never be more than just an imitation of anime. Whether the world and characters in this comic book came from the western world or not is irrelevant. I really thought it would be easy for others to recognize who made Yoshi, and respect that person for it. But no, you all want to make Yoshi your own... fine, but let me tell you, that this doesn't say anything good about you... ...and son, remember who bought the candy for you. |
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Post by teh yoshi on Nov 16, 2004 21:34:08 GMT -5
Whoa, dude! Calm down. That was a totally unfair thing to say! Don't assume how I'd feel if that were to happen. If I were to see a picture of that, I'll still feel annoyed, because like I said, I'm not a big fan of national pride. Besides, it'll give me an even WEIRDER feeling instead of a Japanese flag. At least a Japanese flag would make a bit more sense, but still... I just don't entirely agree with it.
Seriously, I AM being honest to you and myself.
I don't get it. Did you not just hear me say ? Is that not enough for you? What more can I say or you want any of us to say?
I always thought anime was just a style of cartoon. Where did you get that definition, anyway?
Besides, isn't it true that a lot of Japanese "anime" out there was created by Korean drawing labor? Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know much in that field, anyway.
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Post by Bry on Nov 16, 2004 22:08:41 GMT -5
If you're talking about him as a creative object, yes, Yoshi is a Japanese creation. As is Mario and most of the cast...
I don't think ANYONE had any doubt about that...
But that is a completely different thing from him having a Japanese personalty.
You're entitled to your opinion Soul, but please don't try to ram it down our throats, or say that we lack visualisation or anything.
Honestly, Yoshi is a fictional character.
As far as I'm concerned, he has no place in the real world. Dragging him into it just isn't right to me.
You don't have to agree with me, but please do not tell me what he is and isn't.
You have your opinions but you didn't create Yoshi, so your ideas are not official in any way.
Have Nintendo ever said Yoshi is Japanese? Have Nintendo ever drawn or shown Yoshi holding a Japanese flag, or in a straight up Japanese light?
As far as I'm aware, no. Though I'd be happy for you to show me some official art/in game graphics to show otherwise.
And I'll tell you, I would not especially like to see the VERY 'English' characters in the Mario world parading Union Flags or St Georges Crosses. (examples such as Kolorado. Or Koopa Troopa in Mario Golf: TT).
Fine, Yoshi may have some Japanese traits in his personality.
Though to be honest, since when have Nintendo actually given him a whole lot of personality?
His victory dances in Mario Kart or Mario Party?
Your point about him being Japanese because his creator is Japanese has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese. (always wanted to say that somewhere)
I'm not even gonna try to change your mind. But don't you dare call me crazy or lacking visualisation just because my opinion is different from yours.
You should know by now that I can be a really nice guy, but stubborn as a mule and I don't like being told I'm wrong without anything to back up the statement.
IF Yoshi was in the real world, and IF Yoshi was asked what country was his home, PERHAPS, he would say Japan.
But he DOESN'T live in the real world.
Yoshi as a character does not even know what Japan is.
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Post by Yoshi on Nov 16, 2004 23:12:41 GMT -5
And you're forgetting that most of Nintendo's games and style are inspired by American toons and culture. Same goes for Anime, Anime is inspired by western culture. If Yoshi was Japanese, and if EVERY Anime game or cartoon was Japanese, then they wouldn't contain any Western culture. Such as cars, houses, culture, clothing, weapons, mechas, hair styles. Today, Western cartoons are borrowing stuff from Anime, so I suppose it's vice-versa now. yeha good point shika like those cute eyes expresions anime characters make originally came from Disney believe it or not... |
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Post by Soul on Nov 16, 2004 23:34:08 GMT -5
Teh Yoshi, I do not like your current tone. So watch it.
Don't lose control of yourself. We're just discussing.
But not as much as with the Japanese flag, perhaps?
Believe me, nor am I. If I were, my signature would say something like "Japan is the best", effectively placing it above all other countries. But I'm not doing that, nor would I want to, because it would be disrespectful for all other countries; And I do have respect for all other countries, at least as far as this topic is concerned.
Bleh... You think I'm saying it out of thin air, don't you? In Japanese, anime is short for "animation". Thus if something is to be called "anime", it would be animation made in Japan (with the sole exception of you being a Japanese person using your language to say "animation"). It makes no sense for an English-speaking person to call american-made cartoons "anime" since in English there is already a word for it: Animation. So then, the question arises, why not call anime by its English name (animation)? Because it is not the same as american animation. Thus the need to differentiate it, and the need for a different word. This is what I believe.
You think anime is just a style of cartoon. You can't think otherwise because you haven't really experienced what anime is about. Anime contains the Japanese spirit as well, which is VERY different from the American spirit. Anime is a lot more than just style, and it takes more than just a couple hours of observation to notice that. The whole stories and plots are different. But you will probably not be able to see that without deep observation.
Also...
otakus (aka huge anime fans) love to distort the definition of anime to include what they make. This is foolish. In the process (though possibly unconsciously), they are trying to be something they are not (Japanese), and since they want it so badly, it is to expect at least some distortion in their definition of anime. This is what I strongly believe: Anime has a unique spirit that can be imitated but not duplicated. Same goes for all other forms of art. Do you think literature experts would ever believe that it is possible to match their beloved William Shakespeare? They would laugh in your face if you told them you could match him. Has anyone in all the history of mankind successfully duplicated, and not simply imitated, any form of art whatsoever? If that were so, then anyone could become a millionaire by duplicating art from famous painters like Picasso or Michaelangelo. But it is the essence of the artist that is unique and cannot be duplicated no matter what (although it can certainly be imitated). Though this is very down to specifics and so I wouldn't expect people to quickly agree to this.
The rest of your paragraph does not support your one statement, in which you said that you "could not deny that Yoshi's origin is Japanese". How can you not deny it, and still believe that Yoshi can belong to anybody of any origin?? Sorry but it sounds contradicting.
That is not my intention. I just want to prove my point, which is what everybody is trying to do (prove their own point), and which is what messageboards were made for. The thing about "lack of visualization" was not intended to have an offensive air to it, I am sorry. I just thought maybe you needed more info, more visualization to believe me more easily. I did not mean to insult anyone's intelligence.
This has now boiled down to individual opinions. There is not much left to say. At least I had to try once to change your minds, no? It feels as if every time I write about something I think or believe, almost everyone on this board takes it as an agression to their own values and opinions. I do not understand why this happens, and the only solution appears to be not posting anything. I might as well remove the pic off this thread if that will make everyone feel better. Just let me know...
I would love to see what a Japanese person has to say about this though...
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Post by teh yoshi on Nov 16, 2004 23:59:57 GMT -5
Did I not just say it'll even give off an even weirder feeling? Yes, I'll feel annoyed. No, hell, I'll feel even kind of disgusted! I'll be laughing at the dude who drew that. I'll probably be saying something like, "Okay, cute picture, but that's waaay to strange now XD. You have way too much Filipino pride in you or something, and you want to project it through another liking of yours, which is Yoshi? A bit of a strange combination. Even though I drew some Yoshis speaking Tagalog or Korean, that doesn't mean I want to show off that I'm whatever, but it's only either utterly random or some sort of inside joke." But that comment would only apply to the person who would actually draw a Yoshi holding the flag of the Philippines proudly. And besides, what do you mean people ignoring Yoshi's origins? How are they ignoring it? Just by happening to not mention Japan at all or draw something of the sort? What do you want the people to do, then?
As for what I mean by "belonging to everybody," I meant to say that, yes, any culture can enjoy Yoshi equally. I didn't say Yoshi's origin could belong to everybody, just Yoshi in its character form. It's kind of like how apple pie originated. People say it's so American, but it originated from England and their substituting meat pies. Apple pie can "belong" to America, so to speak, but its English origin can never be changed or challenged.
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Dashi
New Yoshi
wewt!
Posts: 9
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Post by Dashi on Nov 17, 2004 0:34:35 GMT -5
I agree with YS...
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