I'm done posting artwork here

[Koshizu]

They should go elsewhere if they want to be mean, like go yell at a tree idiots!

Trees have feelings too. I assume you don't hug trees, you barbarian.

I personally don't mind whether I get comments on my art or not. I always appreciate criticism, but lately art has become such a mainstream 'cult' if you will, that sugar-coating has also increased, especially in the past year or so. Granted, I never intend to change my pictures (sometimes it is too much effort to for a small thing) if I recieve it, but I always keep it in mind next time round. Hey, who ever would want to discourage improvement?

Its a shame the Art Guidelines thread vanished - I would have been intrigued to have read it. Will another one be created, by any chance?

[Koshizu]

So long as they aren't willow trees...those ones are fragile.

[yoshicreator]

Dunno what kind they are, they have white leaves...very beatiful right now, mind you we own 500 acres of land and a sixty acre lake, there are some 700 or more trees around my house, and other plants, flowers, weeds ivies etc. too! It is hard to keep them all apart!

~*YC*~!

[Soul]

lazoshi said:

There was a thread making some of those points that was once in the bulletin board

Do you remember who created that thread? I was never able to see it. Well, what I wrote up there did come straight from my head since I never saw that one thread.

Art criticism can be extremely annoying for an artist that is not in a "learning" stage. Once an artist reaches his/her desired skill level, all criticism becomes a nuisance. That I do know for sure. So it is generally a good idea to not give criticism unless the artist specifically asks for it or if you somehow know that the artist is in a learning stage and is eager about modifying his/her work. Of course, the other types of artists, the kind that only likes positive comments, will probably loathe criticism as well.

Hell, I think art criticism shouldn't be given at all if not requested by the artist. What are you going to say? "oh look at this little detail, it doesn't look right, change it to this and that, it would look better"; It doesn't look right? Is there a pre-defined way for art to look "right" or something? This is just a case of a critic's ego trying to alter another person's art so that the critic will like it better. The art critic forgets, that this art was never drawn to please him/her. An artist draws for the self, not for others. (unless it is a gift, in which case any kind of criticism would just be plain disrespectful anyway). In most cases, the artist will reply to such criticism with "I like it that way". So why bother? Unless you enjoy annoying other people...

Just typing stuff as I think of it.

[Koshizu]

I'll take this opportunity to chime in and ask whether there will be a possible consideration for the amount of art threads one can create, as well? Currently, the first page is populated with multiple threads from the same users...one member even creating eigth seperate threads for one picture posts.

I'm not terribly bothered about it, but I was just wondering whether a limit on how many you can post a day, or something similar could be enforced. I'm only suggesting because a lot of threads get pushed back to the other pages relatively quickly.

My two cents.

[sui]

Do you remember who created that thread?

That topic created by TimYoshi, if I remember right. He said something similar in that thread what he wrote here, methinks.

Anyway. I have thoughts about that "criticism" thing.

For me, I like criticism. Give them and get them, both. Even if I'm not in that kind of "learning stage" what Yoshi Soul mentioned above, but I say, an artist never stops improving. (Only above 30, because that is the age when the reflexes start to dull, heh ;)

Of course, there are people who don't like to get criticism, but that is not because he or she got over that "learning stage" - just they have this kind of nature.

The second thing is that, nobody likes to get criticism from the mouth of a person which did not put anything onto the table - I mean, even if I like critism, I appreciate FAR better when I get it from a person who can show "something", than from Mr. Nameless Jonh. That is like the football "brains" nowadays - they know what is the good in it, "and how to do", but they can't play the sport actually. Lol?

Third: there aren't only that kind of criticism what about "fault-finding". Criticism is a message to the author where the writer give a _deep_ description about what he or she thinks of that art / movie / music, et cetera. So, that can be good, and bad either. More accurately, criticism (in thoughs) is about to give a hint where / how can be the artist more better. Or just I don't know the true meaning of the word. Heh.

I rather throw comments into the Recycle Bin like "Goodjob![/end]" than a tasty message where the writer can define what is wrong, what is bad, and WHY.

However, that is just a Yoshi fanboard, so that is not a must thing to give an analysis about an artwork or something, ehehee...

[contention]

I did not read this until now due to the lack of being here, which I am sorry about. Though this has caught my attention, with the cristicm remarks and all about artwork and how an artist should be reviewed when they post a picture. One thing that caught my eye of course, was the fact that you don't like it when other artist are adored for what they do, and then you just get a pat. I would also like to fit in a sincerly sorry for the big long review I gave Joshi and things, as I should just tell him in Messenger, of course I love and adore everyones art that I see at YC, and I always have. Give me a Yoshi art picture, and like I told Joshi I can match the name to who drew it, usually haha! But, I am sorry about that, of course I did point out why he was good not just told him it was awesome. Now I want to remark on the critiscm, I like what you have all said so far about how it should be given and you should point out whats wrong, why it is, and what you should do to fix it. Thats the right type of critiscm, and as you said before it should be asked for in the artists comments when posting the picture.

Human emotions are a strange thing, and of course you can't control who loves that so much, and who loves that one so much and why that, so forth and so on. Of course, things like that will happen, its just the way we live. All art is appreaciated and adored no matter what, heck all of those who draw in the YC art section have skill and bravery to post up a picture to at least 50 active members to see. We also have those new members, who just go around and post.

"Thats nice, good job"

And thats all you get? I believe thats probaly the worst kind of artistic remark you could get out of any of them. At least at other times you can get honorable remarks, and cristicm. Don't be mad at the OMG, I think you also have to take into consideration the short post with no meaning XD, same thing they both are in their own way though. An artistic review should have at least three parts to it, no matter how long or how short it could possibly be.

One: Your first glance remark
Two: Critiscm over a piece or part, whats wrong, why, how to fix it like n00by said.
Three: Overall view of the picture

Simple, make it short and sweet, no ten page review *cough* XD and no one sentence. Of course there is nothing wrong with one sentence, but you should take into consideration as you all said of the artist feelings. We are all humans, we all have feelings, we all have needs and wants, and of course like any other human emotion and face of life, we all want attention in some small way. So reviews are what we want, with a thoughtful meaning, either good or bad attachted to them. Think before you speak, think before you type, and think after you post. Read what you say, if you were the artist would you like to get the remark you just gave? Is it to simple, to dry, to overated, to big, to hurtful, to out there. Then just go through and reword it, make sure you give it a thoughtful glance and use your heart and your feelings to piece it together.

With the amount of art posted one day in the art section, it gets hard to review, heck at least 30 pictures in one day. And not all of that will get reviewed, so choose a good time to post your picture if you draw one. Sometimes you have the veterans post a picture, of course they will get reviews, its the way things work and theres no way around that really. Two things to keep in mind, those who post art to much, will get smaller and smaller reviews, save up your art and post it in nice long intervals and you will get your reviews. Also, look at the view counter, not the reply counter. It's nice to know, that we have seen your art, we may not always comment. Just keep in mind, we take the time to look over your art, and even though we may not sit down and type a reply, we enjoy it in some way and have critiques in our head. It's not about the glory, what artist really want is a way to learn how to grow. If you help them review, and give them good ideas they can work with that and continue on in how they draw with new views and figures.

So keep in mind, we are all but humans, this is just real life, wrapped up in a computer screen. You may not see us but were there, feelings are all the same here nothing changes. You are all artist, those who draw in the YC art section, those who write, heck those who do anything. You are all adored, and just like at school or at some place you may be in a band lets say, and you're going to have the top player, chair number one. Or you might be third in your class, and everyone adores the first in your class. What are you going to do? Of course you'll sit there and go "Well... everyone always talks so loving of them...." When of course, your adored as much. It's hard to explain, and very hard to change, its human emotions bound up in one big ball, but you can change it if you take the time to make sure equality is spread, and you think when you do things.

[sakura]

i should have payed more attention to this
i find when i ask for critique noone comments on it.
so yeah =( just post cause i want to put my art out there, and to improve but noone ever gives me critique =(
which i love =)
and most of the time i don't comment on others pictures cause i don't know what to say, because i hate "great job" comments =)

[yoshicreator]

I'll make sure to give more in-depth critque from now on, I know how it can be irrtating because I'm a writer...and Some people just give you the thumbs-up without any real comments and suggestions!

So I'll try to be better from now on...

~*YC*~

[Soul]

Freaking siht.

Granted that you will never know the entire meaning of the word "art" if your only art education came from the online art scene. ESPECIALLY if you never questioned what you learned & simply accepted it as a fact the first time you heard it "just because everyone else (online) seems to think the same way". It's the exact same problem that people who never travel anywhere go through. By staying in one place all their life they are unconsciously making sure that they will never know what the rest of the world thinks like, and will end up wrongly believing that what is taught in his/her own local community is the way everybody else thinks and should think. This is the biggest and most important source of conflicts between cultures, as it is between the full definition of art and with what the online art scene says art is.

Bet you will disagree, but graphical art isn't about "creating spiffy images". It is about getting a message across. If a "spiffy" image has no meaning then it is not art. Whereas an image that may or may not have exceptional looks but does have a strong meaning IS art. Just ask any art museum curator. (bet nooooone here has ever done that). The online art scene has its own flawed definition of art. People just call everything that is drawn by hand "art", and that's because that is the easiest thing to do. (I do realize it's hard to do otherwise, I'm just noting it). I have yet to see any respectable, real-world art society proclaim that fan art based on entertainment for kids and teenagers (cartoons, anime, videogames, comics, etc) is true art. Hah. Sorry but it's the truth, these things aren't taken seriously anywhere else, just on the net. As much as you might hate it.

Now, to make sure you're not assuming anything... Online "art" can be beautiful. It can be beautiful and very pleasing to draw & color your favorite TV characters (be it cartoon, anime, comic, videogame characters, whatever), it is fun to create your own characters based on the characters you like, etc.; It is always fun to learn a new skill. And for teenagers, online art provides a way for them to "prove" themselves, which is very important for a person of that age. After all I was once a teenager. (don't comment on my conduct here... I try to fit in). So don't go ballistic on me just cuz I said online art doesn't quite fit in all-that-well with the all-time definition of art. That doesn't mean you're wasting your time with your pics, much less that your pics are worthless! Just because it isn't considered true art doesn't mean that it isn't made with hard work & dedication. And remember that everything I said about online art applies to my own work as well.

Generally if a Yoshi fan art pic touches my heart (like Norby's Yoshi-with-ball pic did), I consider it to be true art. Since I am familiar with Yoshi, it's easy for me to understand the message. A Yoshi art pic would certainly not mean much to a person that is not familiar with Yoshi. True art does exist in the online entertainment fan art community, but it is very hard to find (which is the point I'm trying to make).

Now that I (hopefully) clarified my views a little, I'll re-tackle the problem of criticism. Contrary to the world of universal art, in the online art scene (and I'm specifically talking about the side of the online art scene that draws heavily on entertainment like anime & videogames & the like) the goals of the individual artists are all quite similar. For example: "draw your favorite character as good as possible". Such a goal does provide ample room for criticism to be useful, since the main goal is to replicate something. In contrast, in the world of universal art the goal is to get a message across, through any means. IMHO, there's really no room for criticism there. Criticizing such an art piece would be pretty much like saying that the artist's feelings suck. Take Pablo Picasso for example. (is there anything in his murals that you would NOT want changed?) His paintings look terrible, but the emotions they contain are beautiful (note that if you cannot see the emotions then you will probably always think that his work is total crap).

Of course, there are people who don't like to get criticism, but that is not because he or she got over that "learning stage" - just they have this kind of nature.

As I said, people who aren't on a learning stage aren't the only type of person that will hate criticism. Remember that there are some individuals that create art only to raise their self-esteem through positive comments. These will hate criticism too. They have "that kind of nature" for a reason.

Criticism is [also] a message to the author where the writer give a _deep_ description about what he or she thinks of that art / movie / music, et cetera

I would call that "a review". Criticism is more like "I think this should be changed", whereas a review is more like "I see this and that": Just noting what you see, without saying if you actually like it or not, like a criticizer would.

[Kasen]

Yea i just read through all of it, but I criticism shouldnt be something that you should get mad at people are not saying you suck stop drawing, when I use critcism I try to use it to mostly the people who ask for it, but I think it helps them to know what they can do to make themselves a better artist, if they think they are a great artist they have a right to say well I think I did fine on it and I dont need improvement. I really dont see such a problem with it at all, I love criticism I hate just aww you did great, or I really love it, I want to improve as an artist, not just keep doing the same stuff and over again. even Picasson changed his art styles a lot meaning that he wanted to improve as an artist trying new things.

How bout if you want critiquing, thne ask if they dont ask for it dont give them it, that would make life a lot easier..^_^ I am now done, sorry if I made anyone upset

[Yoshino]

y'know, now that I think about it everytime I post a pic here, I compare it with other artirts here and realize, that most of the time I feel incecure about my art too.
I mean, I knew being a tradicional pen 'n' pencil artist was going to be hard but, I guess I didn't know what to expect from people from all over the world.

The truth is, there's always going to be someone that does something better that you can but that shouldn't be a reason to give up. A very wise person once said "Those who don't try have never lived" or something like that.

[yoshicreator]

Everyone's art is just bound to be different, you can’t and more importantly should not compare yourself to others. Where you are strong others are weak and where you fail others succeed. Therefore art has no rights or wrongs; it is all a matter of what suits you best and how you look at each piece. In closing every work of human hands is a masterpiece, you just have to look and find how!

~*YC*~

[UMS Author Lava]

YIKES.
I just read it just now, you were kinda like God in "The Holy Grail". And what you said about shutting off the art sections...[glow=red,9,999] [/glow]